Monument to Robert Charles John Manners, Chapel, Haddon Hall

A very fine sculpture of the boy Robert Charles John Manners, 1886-1895, first son of Henry 8th Duke Rutland and his wife Violet Lindsay, who died aged nine of an acute stomach condition.

Violet Lindsay spend thirty years sculpting the base of the monument, possibly also the effigy too although it is so fine as to probably be the work of a professional such as Alfred Gilbert (who was summoned to take the death mask), possibly George Frampton whose monument to Lady Isabel Wilson in St James Church, Warter is of a similar quality.

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The arms on the base of the monument represent the Manners and Lindsay descent.

The Manners arms originally Or, two bars azure, meaning Gold (Yellow) background with two blue (azure) horizontal bars.

Henry VIII allowed the augmentation of the arms with the arms of England in chief (meaning at the top) reflecting the descent from Edward III as a result of George Manners, 11th Baron Ros Helmsley, having married Anne St Leger whose mother was Anne of York (elder sister of Edward IV and Richard III) whose father was Richard 3rd Duke York whose father was Richard of Conisburgh, 1st Earl Cambridge, whose father was Edmund of Langley, 1st Duke of York, whose was the son of Edward III.

Other arms include:

Ros. Robert Manners married Eleanor Ros, heiress of Thomas Ros, 9th Baron Ros Helmsley.

Neville. Henry Manners, 2nd Earl Rutland, married Margaret Neville, daughter of Ralph Neville, 4th Earl Westmoreland.

Charlton. John Manners, 4th Earl Rutland, married Elizabeth Charlton.

Carey. George Manners, 7th Earl Rutland, married Frances Carey.

Montagu. John Manners, 8th Earl Rutland, married Frances Montagu.

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Photos less than ideal since I wasn’t carrying my usual camera; these taken with a phone.





Edward Redman, 1510, All Saints, Harewood

Another of the six fine chest tombs at All Saints, Harewood.

Edward Redman, died 1510, and his wife Elizabeth Huddlestone.

He originally a supporter of York, in particular Richard III. He was subject to the general pardon issued by Henry VII after the Battle of Bosworth.

Edward and Elizabeth had four children only one of whom, Henry, had a child: Joan who married Marmaduke Gascoigne, son of William Gascoigne.

He wearing armour of Period V: Early Tudor. Simpler, reduced fluting. The pauldrons formed from one smooth plate with a bold projection to protect the neck, typically larger on the left. A Tudor collar of Esses and Roses combining the SS of Lancaster and the White Rose of York following the marriage of Henry VII and Elizabeth of York. Shaved, hair “bobbed”, longer than in Period IV, comes down to the shoulder. Head resting on a helm with mantling and a fine crest of what appears to be a dogs head.

She wearing a simple  headdress with veil falling low on the shoulders.

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Yoxall Church, Staffordshire

Popped into Yoxall Church on the way back from a trip to Lichfield.

A fine monument to Humphrey Welles and his wife Mary Chetwynd. Elizabethan.

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A very fine monument to Admiral Henry Meynell (1865) by Carlo Marochetti.

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Memorial to James Thompson VC:

For gallant conduct in saving the life of his captain (Captain Wilton), on the 9th of July, 1857, by dashing forward to his relief, when that officer was surrounded by a party of Ghazees, who made a sudden rush on him, from a serai – and killing two of them before further assistance could reach. Also recommended for conspicuous conduct throughout the siege.[2]

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Queen Anne Succession

Queen Anne died 01 Aug 1714. As a result of an Act of Parliament Catholics were excluded from the succession. The Kingdom passed to King George I, the first Hanoverian.

Twenty seven people were excluded from the succession for being Catholic including Louis XV King France 1710-1774 and two future Kings of Spain: Louis I King Spain 1707-1724 and Ferdinand VI King Spain 1713-1759.

Those excluded are shown RED in the list below.

All of King James VI King Scotland I King England and Ireland 1566-1625 descendants to seven generations ie 5 x Great Grandchildren added to The History Database.


James VI King Scotland I King England and Ireland 1566-1625
      Henry Frederick Stewart Prince Wales 1594-1612
      Elizabeth Stewart 1596-1662
            Frederick Henry Palatinate-Simmern 1614-1629
            Charles Louis Palatinate-Simmern 1617-1680
                  Charles Palatinate-Simmern 1651-1685
                  Elizabeth Charlotte Palatinate-Simmern 1652-1722
                        Alexandre Louis Bourbon 1673-1676
                        Philippe Bourbon II Duke Orléans 1674-1723
                              Marie Isabella Bourbon 1693-1694
                              Marie Louise Élisabeth Bourbon 1695-1719
                              Louise Adélaïde Bourbon 1698-1743
                              Charlotte Aglaé Bourbon 1700-1761
                              Louis Bourbon Duke Orléans 1703-1752
                                    Louis Philippe The Fat Bourbon I Duke Orléans 1725-1785
                                    Louise Marie Bourbon 1726-1728
                              Louise Élisabeth Bourbon 1709-1742
                              Philippine Élisabeth Bourbon 1714-1734
                              Louise Diane Bourbon 1716-1736
                        Élisabeth Charlotte Bourbon 1676-1744
                              Léopold Lorraine 1699-1700
                              Elisabeth Charlotte Lorraine 1700-1711
                              Louise Christine Lorraine 1701-1701
                              Marie Gabrièle Charlotte Lorraine 1702-1711
                              Louis Lorraine 1704-1711
                              Josepha Gabrièle Lorraine 1705-1708
                              Gabrièle Louise Lorraine 1706-1710
                              Léopold Clement Charles Lorraine 1707-1723
                              Francis Stephen Lorraine 1708-1765
                              Eléonore Lorraine -1710
                              Elisabeth Therese Lorraine 1711-1741
                                    Carlo Francesco Savoy 1738-1745
                                    Maria Vittoria Margherita Savoy 1740-1742
                                    Benedetto Maria Maurizio Savoy 1741-1808
                              Charles Alexander Emmanuel Lorraine 1712-1780
                              Anne Charlotte Lorraine 1714-1773
                  Friedrich Palatinate-Simmern 1653-1653
            Elisabeth Palatinate-Simmern 1612-1680
            Rupert Palatinate-Simmern 1st Duke Cumberland 1619-1682
                  Ruperta Palatinate-Simmern 1671-1740
            Maurice Palatinate-Simmern 1620-1652
            Louise Hollandine Palatinate-Simmern 1622-1709
            Louis Palatinate-Simmern 1623-1624
            Edward Palatinate-Simmern 1625-1663
                  Luise Marie Palatinate-Simmern 1647-1679
                        Louis Otto Count Salm-Salm 1674-1738
                              Dorothea Franziska Agnes Salm 1702-1751
                              Elisabeth Alexandrine Felicite Charlotte Gotfriede Salm 1704-1739
                              Christine Anna Luise Oswaldine Salm 1707-1775
                        Louise Salm
                        Louise Apollonia Salm
                        Eleanor Chirstina Salm
                  Anne Henriette Palatinate-Simmern 1648-1723
                  Benedicta Henrietta Palatinate-Simmern 1652-1730
            Henriette Marie Palatinate-Simmern 1626-1651
            Philip Frederick Palatinate-Simmern 1627-1650
            Charlotte Palatinate-Simmern 1628-1631
            Sophia Palatinate-Simmern 1630-1714
                  George Louis I King Great Britain and Ireland 1660-1727
                        George Augustus II King Great Britain and Ireland 1683-1760
                              Frederick Hanover 1707-1751
                                    Augusta Hanover 1737-1813
                                    George William Frederick III King Great Britain and Ireland 1738-1820
                                          George IV King United Kingdom 1762-1830
                                          Frederick Hanover
                                          William IV King United Kingdom 1765-1837
                                          Charlotte Hanover
                                          Edward Hanover 1st Duke Kent and Strathearn 1767-1820
                                          Augusta Sophia Hanover
                                          Elizabeth Hanover
                                          Ernest Augustus King Hanover 1771-1851
                                          Augustus Frederick Hanover 1st Duke Sussex 1773-1843
                                          Adolphus Hanover 1st Duke Cambridge 1774-1850
                                          Mary Hanover
                                          Sophia Hanover
                                          Octavius Hanover
                                          Alfred Hanover
                                          Amelia Hanover
                                    Edward Hanover Duke York 1739-1767
                                    Elizabeth Hanover 1741-1759
                                    William Henry Hanover 1st Duke Gloucester and Edinburgh 1743-1805
                                    Henry Hanover 1745-1790
                                    Louisa Hanover 1749-1768
                                    Frederick Hanover 1750-1765
                                    Caroline Matilda Hanover 1751-1775
                              Anne Hanover 1709-1759
                              Amelia Hanover 1711-1786
                              Caroline Hanover 1713-1757
                              Stillborn Hanover
                              George William Hanover 1717-1718
                              Miscarriage Hanover 1718-
                              William Hanover 1st Duke Cumberland 1721-1765
                              Mary Hanover 1723-1772
                              Louisa Hanover 1724-1751
                        Sophia Dorothea Hanover 1687-1757
                        Anne aka Louise Sophia Schulenburg 1692-1773
                        Petronilla aka Melusina Schulenburg 1693-1778
                        Margarethe Gertrud von Oeynhausen Schulenburg 1701-1726
                  Frederick Augustus Hanover 1661-1690
                  Maximilian  Hanover 1666-1726
                  Sophia Charlotte Hanover 1668-1705
                  Charles Philip Hanover 1669-1690
                  Christian Henry Hanover 1671-1703
                  Ernest Augustus Hanover 1674-1728
            Gustavus Palatinate-Simmern 1632-1641
      Margaret Stewart 1598-1600
      Charles I King England and Ireland 1600-1649
            Charles II King England and Ireland 1630-1685
                  Anne Stewart 1661-1722
                  Charles Stewart 1st Duke Southampton 2nd Duke Cleveland 1662-1730
                        Grace Stewart 1697-1763
                              Charles Vane
                              Harriet Vane -1758
                              Mary Vane
                              Henry Vane 2nd Earl Darlington 1726-1792
                                    Grace Vane
                                    Elizabeth Vane
                                    William Harry Vane 1st Duke Cleveland 1766-1842
                                          Henry Vane 2nd Duke Cleveland 1788-1864
                                          Louisa Catherine Barbara Vane 1791-1821
                                          William Vane 3rd Duke Cleveland 1792-1864
                                          Caroline Vane 1795-1795
                                          Augusta Vane 1796-1874
                                          Arabella Vane 1801-1864
                                          Harry Vane 4th Duke Cleveland 1803-1891
                                          Laura Vane 1807-1882
                              Anne Vane 1726-1792
                              Frederick Vane 1732-
                              Raby Vane 1736-1769
                        William Stewart 3rd Duke Cleveland 1698-1774
                  Henry Stewart 1st Duke Grafton 1663-1690
                        Charles Stewart 2nd Duke Grafton 1683-1757
                              Charles Henry Stewart 1714-1715
                              George Stewart 1715-1747
                              Augustus Stewart 1716-1741
                                    Augustus Stewart 3rd Duke Grafton 1735-1811
                                          Georgiana Stewart 1757-1799
                                          George Henry Stewart 4th Duke Grafton 1760-1844
                                          Charles Stewart 1764-1829
                                          Henry Stewart 1770-1828
                                          Frederick Stewart 1774-1774
                                          Augusta Stewart 1779-1839
                                          Frances Stewart 1780-1866
                                          William Stewart 1782-1857
                                          John Edward Stewart 1785-1856
                                          Charlotte Stewart 1785-1857
                                          Elizabeth Stewart 1785-1839
                                          Isabella Stewart -1866
                                    Charles Stewart 1st Baron Southampton 1737-1797
                                          George Stewart 2nd Baron Southampton 1761-1810
                                          Charles Stewart 1762-1831
                                          Henry Stewart 1765-1794
                                          Georgiana Stewart
                                          William Stewart 1773-1837
                              Charles Stewart 1718-
                              Caroline Stewart 1722-
                              Harriet Stewart 1723-
                              Isabella Stewart 1726-
                              Charles Stewart
                  Charlotte Stewart 1664-1718
                  George Stewart 1st Duchess Northumberland 1665-1716
            Mary Stewart 1631-1660
                  William of Orange III King England and Ireland 1650-1702
            James II King England and Ireland 1633-1701
                  Charles Stewart 1660-1661
                  Mary II Queen England and Ireland 1662-1694
                  James Stewart 1st Duke Cambridge 1663-1667
                  Anne I Queen England and Ireland -1714
                  Charles Stewart 1666-1667
                  Edgar Stewart 1st Duke Cambridge 1667-1671
                  Isabel Stewart 1676-1681
                  Charles Stewart 1677-1677
                  James Old Pretender Stewart 1688-1766
                        Charles Edward Bonnie Prince Charlie Stewart 1720-1788
                        Cardinal Henry Benedict Stewart 1725-1807
                  Louisa Maria Teresa Stewart 1692-1712
            Henry Stewart Duke Gloucester 1640-1660
            Henrietta Stewart 1644-1670
                  Marie Louise Bourbon 1662-1689
                  Miscarriage Bourbon 1663-
                  Philippe Charles Bourbon 1664-1666
                  Stillborn Bourbon 1665-
                  Miscarriage Bourbon 1668-
                  Anne Marie Bourbon 1669-1728
                        Maria Adelaide BBB Savoy 1685-1712
                              Louis Bourbon Duke Brittany 1704-1705
                              Louis Bourbon Duke Brittany 1707-1712
                              Louis XV King France 1710-1774
                        Maria Anna Savoy 1687-1690
                        Maria Luisa Savoy 1688-1714
                              Louis I King Spain 1707-1724
                              Philip Bourbon 1709-1709
                              Philip Bourbon 1712-1719
                              Ferdinand VI King Spain 1713-1759
                        Victor Amadeus Savoy 1699-1715
                        Charles Emmanuel III King Sardinia 1701-1773
                              Vittorio Amedeo Theodore Savoy 1723-1725
                              Victor Amadeus III King Sardinia 1726-1796
                                    Maria Anna Savoy
                              Eleonora Maria Teresa Savoy 1728-1781
                              Maria Luisa Gabriella Savoy 1729-1767
                              Maria Felicita Savoy 1730-1801
                              Emanuele Filiberto Savoy 1731-1735
                              Carlo Francesco Romualdo Savoy 1733-1733
                              Carlo Francesco Savoy 1738-1745
                              Maria Vittoria Margherita Savoy 1740-1742
                              Benedetto Maria Maurizio Savoy 1741-1808
                        Emanuele Philibert Savoy 1705-1705
      Robert Stewart 1602-1602
      Mary Stewart 1605-1607
      Sophia Stewart 1607-1607

Why Henry VII was the Lancastrian Heir

In 1483 King Edward IV died unexpectedly aged 41. His younger brother, the future King Richard III, claimed Edward’s children were illegitimate as a result of Edward’s marriage to Elizabeth Woodville being bigamous as result of Edward already having been married to Elizabeth Talbot on the basis of Bishop Richard Stillington’s evidence, he, Stillington, having officiated at, and been the only witness to, the earlier marriage ceremony.

In opposition the House of Lancaster was represented by Henry Tudor, future Henry VII, although there were some 35 extant male great great grandchildren of John of Gaunt, the progenitor of the House of Lancaster having married the heiress Blanche of Lancaster, second daughter and eventual heir of Henry of Grosmont, 1st Duke of Lancaster. John of Gaunt was created Duke of Lancaster in his own right aged 22 in 1362.

Henry VII’s claim to be the most senior representative of the House of Lancaster was based on his being the closest in the male line. His descent was senior to the descendants of Philippa of Lancaster, Elizabeth of Lancaster and Catherine of Lancaster since his great grandfather John Beaufort 1st Marquess Dorset 1st Marquess Somerset took precedence over those half-sisters as result of being male. The order of precedence of John of Gaunt’s children was as follows:

John Beaufort 1st Marquess Dorset 1st Marquess Somerset
Philippa of Lancaster
Elizabeth of Lancaster
Catherine of Lancaster
Joan Beaufort

Henry VII and Henry Stafford 2nd Duke Buckingham were both great grandchildren of John Beaufort 1st Marquess Dorset 1st Marquess Somerset. Henry Tudor, however, took precedence over Henry Stafford since Henry Tudor’s grandfather John 1st Duke Somerset was the elder brother of Edmund Beaufort 2nd Duke Somerset. The Stewart brothers, including James III King Scotland, were descended from Joan Beaufort so had a lower precedence than Henry Stafford.

Charles Somerset 1st Earl Worcester was excluded as a result of his being illegitimate. Its is interesting to note that the Beaufort were all originally illegitimate. Their legitimacy was subsequently confirmed after John of Gaunt had married Katherine Roet but they were excluded from the succession. By this argument none of the Beaufort descendants should have succeeded. In that case the heir of the House of Lancaster would be John II King of Portugal. A ‘foreign’ king on the English throne was likely to be unacceptable to the general public so it appears the Beaufort bar to succession was ignored.

The following table shows the great great grandchildren alive in 1483 by order of birth date:

John of Gaunt
Philippa of Lancaster
Edward “The Philospher”
John II King Portugal
Manuel I King Portugal
Maximillian I Holy Roman Emperor
John II King Portugal
Manuel I King Portugal
Elizabeth of Lancaster
Constance Holland
Edmund Grey
George Grey 2nd Earl Kent
John Holland
Anne Holland
Ralph Neville 3rd Earl Westmoreland
Catherine of Lancaster
John Trastamara
John Prince Asturias
John Beaufort 1st Marquess Dorset 1st Marquess Somerset
John 1st Duke Somerset
Margaret Beaufort
King Henry VII
Joan Beaufort
Joan Stewart
John Douglas 2nd Earl Morton
James II King Scotland
James III King Scotland
Alexander 1st Duke Albany
David 1st Earl Moray
John 1st Earl Atholl
John 2nd Earl Atholl
James 1st Earl Buchan
Alexander 2nd Earl Buchan
James Traquair
Edmund Beaufort 2nd Duke Somerset
Henry Beaufort 3rd Duke Somerset
Charles Somerset 1st Earl Worcester (Illegitimate)
Margaret Beaufort
Henry Stafford 2nd Duke Buckingham
Joan Beaufort
Elizabeth Ferrers
Ralph Greystoke
Robert Greystoke
Richard Neville 5th Earl Salisbury
Joan Neville
Thomas Fitzalan 17th Earl Arundel
Katherine Neville
Edward Hastings 2nd Baron Hastings
Eleanor Neville
George Stanley 9th Baron Strange
Edward Stanley 1st Baron Monteagle
James Stanley Bishop Ely
George Neville 1st Baron Latimer
Henry Neville
Richard Neville 2nd Baron Latimer
Edward Neville 3rd Baron Abergavenny
George Neville 4th Baron Abergavenny
George Neville 5th Baron Abergavenny
Edward Neville
Margaret Neville
Thomas Brooke 8th Baron Cobham
Katherine Neville
John Mowbray 3rd Duke Norfolk
John Mowbray 4th Duke Norfolk
Joan Beaumont
Francis Lovell 1st Viscount Lovell
Eleanor Neville
Henry Percy 3th Earl Northumberland
Henry Percy 4th Earl Northumberland
Katherine Percy
George Grey 2nd Earl Kent
Anne Neville
Humphrey Stafford
Henry Stafford 2nd Duke Buckingham
Catherine Stafford
George Talbot 4th Earl Shrewsbury
John Stafford 1st Earl Wiltshire
Edward Stafford 2nd Earl Wiltshire

Colyton Church, Devon

Colyton Church is full of interest; well worth a visit, especially on a sunny summer’s day.

There is fine monument which, according to the plaque above the gisant, is supposed to represent Margaret daughter of William Courtenay and Catherine of York, daughter of King Edward IV, who died after swallowing a fishbone. Research suggests, however, that the monument is to Margaret Beaufort, grand-daughter of John of Gaunt, wife of Thomas Courtenay, 13th Earl of Devon.

The coats of arms being, left, Courtenay, right, Beaufort, centre, Courtenay and Beaufort impaled ie side by side.

Colyton Church Devon 20170923-142949

Robert 2nd Baron Hungerford, Salisbury Cathedral

Of the three Hungerford generations that include Walter 1st Baron, Robert 2nd Baron and Robert 3rd Baron, Robert 2nd Baron appears to have had a relatively quiet life.

Link to Hungerford Family Tree

His father, Walter 1st Baron, KG, was Speaker of the House of Commons in 29 Jan 1414. Fought during the Hundred Years War including Agincourt in Oct 1415 and the Siege of Rouen in 1418. Thereafter he became Steward of the King’s Household and was held in sufficiently high regard to be appointed executor of Henry V’s will. At Henry VI’s coronation in Paris he was given the honour of being Carver of the King’s food.

Photos of Salisbury Cathedral

Robert 2nd Baron Hungerford’s son Robert 3rd Baron took part in the last stages of  the Hundred Years War being captured and subsequently ransomed at the Battle of Castillon where John ‘Old Talbot’ was killed to the dismay of both the French and English. As a keen Lancastrian he supported Henry VI during the Wars of the Roses surviving Towton only to be captured at the Battle of Hexham and subsequently beheaded at Newcastle.

All three were buried at the no longer extant Hungerford Chapel at Salisbury Cathedral with Robert, 3rd Baron Hungerford’s, monument being moved to the nave.

Robert’s great grand daughter Mary married Edward 2nd Baron Hastings who were the grand parents of Francis 2nd Baron Huntingdon (Hastings Chapel, St Helen’s Church, Ashby de la Zouche, Leicestershire). Francis 2nd Baron Hungerford is, is therefore, the 3 x Great Grandfather of Francis 2nd Baron Huntingdon.


Robert 2nd Baron Hungerford in the Nave of Salisbury Cathedral